Welcome back to the Your Land Life Podcast. If you are on board right now and your mind is thinking things like, "What job could I even do on land? How do I figure this out while I'm still on ships? And what can I be doing now to make it easier later?" then today's episode is going to make everything feel clearer and much more doable.

Because our guest today didn't wait until she resigned to figure out her next steps. She didn't leave ships and then start panicking about CVs, job titles, or interviews. She used her vacation time as her testing ground. She used her ship skills as her starting point. And she used her time on board to prepare in a way that made her transition smoother, faster, and far less stressful. So when she finally left ships, she wasn't guessing. She walked into land life with clarity, confidence, and direction.

Caro, welcome. Thank you so much for being here. How are you?

Thank you for having me. I'm very well, thank you.

Great to hear. For our listeners who don't know you yet, can you start by sharing a quick overview of your cruise ship career?

Of course. I've been working on cruise ships for almost 15 years, passing through different positions and different companies. I started as a GSO, a Guest Services Officer, and worked through all the positions in guest services. Then I moved into a DTP role, which is a desktop publisher, working with all onboard communication. I went through other positions related to ship entertainment and scheduling, and I left the ship as a voyage planner for Princess Cruises. It was a long journey, so I'm just simplifying what those years looked like.

It would have been a wonderful journey. Different positions and different cruise lines really does complete a career at sea, doesn't it?

It does, because you get different perspectives and different service styles, and you learn how to deal with different types of guests, what they are expecting from you, and what you are providing to them. It's also a very good chance to test your skills. I think one high point from my career was actually trying different cruise lines, because you get to see the differences.

At the end of the day, they're all floating hotels, but they all operate a little differently, don't they?

They do, of course. When you are with a high-end company, a six-star company with a small ship of 400 guests, where guests know you by your name and you know them all by theirs, you have to elevate what you are providing. And then in comparison, when you are on a ship with 5,000 guests, you need to provide the same quality of service. However, without knowing them as personally, you also need to develop your skills in a different way to achieve the same level of commitment to the job and to what guests are expecting. So every environment is very challenging.

I really enjoyed hearing you say that. On small ships, part of your role requires you to find those interpersonal skills to really connect with guests. But on a larger ship, you don't actually have the time to use that same skillset, because there are too many guests. So you have to find another skillset inside of you to operate and time manage better just to get the job done. And it's such a great way to look at it in terms of recognising all the skills you have.

You are not even aware of how much you can do inside of what you are doing. It pushes you, and it's a nice thing to realise, what your skills are, what you can do, what you can't do, because that's also very important, and how you can use them. It's always a chance to put yourself out there.

Absolutely. And it really ties into today's story of your ship to shore journey. So tell us, when did you start to think, "Ship life is coming to an end"?

Actually, it was during the pandemic, because we were waiting for so long. I think that people who had a little bit more of a safety net were holding onto it to avoid making any decisions, because we didn't know what was coming. It was a period where I started to think, what if there is no job anymore? What if I don't have a chance to return on board? So I started to think about how I could use my skills on land.

I had a couple of ideas of what I didn't want, and what I did want. The first thing was that I didn't want to leave behind the experience I had acquired up to that point. So I started searching online, looking at job offers that could match my skillsets. That actually placed me in a mindset where I could find myself useful without a drastic change, if that makes sense.

I just needed to feel safe doing what I could do on land. I started looking for jobs that were actually asking for my skills. And it wasn't easy, because we always have this thought that what we do on board, we only do on board. But that wasn't true. I just needed to translate what I had into land language, and those skills were very appealing to what the market was asking for.

I really enjoy how you expressed that. I think it's something that many ship crew who want to leave feel hesitant about, because they don't know how to see that their experience and skillset can fit into a land-based work environment. They don't know how to talk about it or how to see how it translates. So when you say you learned the land life language, that's such a great step for anyone to take. And when you started learning how to speak that language, what did that give you? How did it make the job search easier?

Well, I'll take a small step back first, because the truth is I underestimated myself. I thought I didn't have the knowledge, but I had way more than what was expected for the roles I was applying for. So I started to adjust.

It's funny to say, and I'm not trying to be arrogant here, but when I started applying for positions and people were telling me things like, "You are not entry level, you are way more skilled for this position than you think you are," I first got scared. Because what I thought was, I'm not on a ship anymore, I don't have my stripes, I have nothing. So I was starting at some sort of entry or junior level. And then I realised, okay, I really cannot leave all of that behind. Those first pieces of feedback were what actually started to position me in a place where, not to inflate my ego, but to show me that my first perception of myself wasn't wrong.

After that, I started tailoring my CV. I started placing myself where the people interviewing me or reviewing my applications could actually see me clearly, and that made a huge difference. I started applying for senior professional positions.

I chose to work in MICE, which stands for Meetings, Incentives, Conventions, and Events. I did very well, and I also worked in incentive travel, selling destinations, because I could deliver the job from beginning to end. I could give clients a great perspective of the destinations they were choosing. It was really nice to choose something that was familiar to me and that I felt confident with.

That's absolutely what everyone wants to hear. If I'm summarising correctly, through trial and error you applied for different roles, got the feedback you needed, then trusted yourself enough to say, "Wait, I'm actually matched to more senior positions, and that matches the skillset and experience I do have." And then you started moving in a direction where you chose yourself, your experience, and your skillset to run with.

That's correct. That's exactly the path I chose.

And would it be fair to say that the preparation work you did when you returned to ships after COVID, knowing so much more about the land life work environment, helped you use your vacations to move the needle further until you finally left?

Definitely, yes. Knowing who you are talking to, knowing your audience, is something that actually helps you. You need to tell people why you are a good asset for that position. Researching, understanding the market with the eye of someone looking at what can be offered, all of that made me so much more confident. So if I were to summarise it, it comes down to knowing who you are going for. I know it's very difficult to figure out, but researching, reading, and checking in with people around you on land is a good beginning.

You can ask your friends even if they're not from the industry you're interested in, because they know what's going on. You always have someone you can look to, to understand what skills you actually need to have, to develop, or to simply show, that will take you in the right direction. I think that path is what made me successful and why I don't regret the choice I made.

To me, it sounds like you did great preparation, testing the waters and trialling things out. And for ship crew listening who are thinking, "How would I figure out what my skillset is? How do I translate what I've done in my roles?" can you talk us through how you did that, so listeners can think about where to start?

I will say this: regardless of the company, we offer a high standard of service that no one else will be able to provide. That was the first clue I got. What I searched for was literally white glove service. I kept that as my search because a bartender can say, "I'm only a bartender." No, you are not.

If you walk into any bar, restaurant, or service environment on land, you will see that people often aren't working with a smile on their faces. I know how many times I walk into a room and just smile, because it's so natural to me, because I've been trained to do that. And every crew member is trained to do that. This is something that is a huge differentiator. It stands out so much on land that you simply cannot let it pass. And it's simple.

For example, we never point to places on a ship, we take people there. That's an unspoken rule. This is something that shows kindness. If you are going to work in a service role on land, that's what people want to see.

Those were the simple things I aimed for first. And then of course I leaned into the specific skills from the roles I had held, because those were things I didn't want to let go of. I'd spent over a decade on board, and there were so many wonderful things I had learned. I said to myself, I just don't want to let this go. I need to use this to provide what I can provide. That was basically it.

Absolutely. And after a decade, those skills aren't just something you do, they're part of who you are. It would feel very strange to say, "I don't want to use those anymore," because you'd be leaving a part of yourself behind.

I'm sure as you went through the process of realising, "I've had this amazing time at sea, my skillset level is incredibly high with these traits that are unique to ship crew," the question really becomes, why would you not want to use them?

It's pretty simple. Because again, it's a completely different standard to what you see in the market, to what we have to compete against. When you listen politely to someone who needs to vent, not everyone has that skill. You know how to nod your head and truly listen to someone who is upset about something that perhaps shouldn't be such a big deal, and you are just there, nodding, trying to sort out an issue that isn't even yours. Every crew member has these skills. You just need to learn how to put it out there, how to show the people looking to hire that you are capable of it. It's so incorporated into who you are that you just need to use it when the moment calls for it.

Absolutely. As you said earlier, it's that feeling you get when you walk into a restaurant as a guest and you can instantly sense there's just no warmth or care from the staff. And when you've come from an environment where warmth and care are completely normal, you feel that difference immediately.

Exactly. And not only that, the standard of training that we develop to provide the service we provide on board is so valid. I actually came to appreciate that even more after I left ships, because what is considered a normal daily task or daily reality on board is not what is expected out here. That is absolutely something that anyone leaving ships can bring with them.

For our listeners, I really want you to take away what Caro just shared there. If you look at your own daily environment on board and what you provide in terms of service, and then you go home and step into those same environments as a customer, you will instantly notice the difference. And that difference is something you should be paying close attention to, because that's what you have. That's what you need to be aware of, lead with, and bring to the table when you're thinking, "I don't have a skillset." Everyone has a skillset. But what you've gained from ships is a certain set of traits and a uniqueness that comes from working in that environment.

You've outlined it so perfectly, and I really hope everyone is honing in on that message. Because we can feel genuinely grateful to ship life for giving us that. You can only really realise how rich that experience is when you're out of it, because working long hours away from home and away from your regular environment can sometimes blind you to it. I know how hard and how long those hours are. And now that I'm out, it's easier said than done. But the thing about looking for something when you're not desperate for it helps you focus on what matters. Whoever is listening to this, don't be desperate. If you plan it, if you aim for the right place and you stick to a plan, things work out. I think that's my message here.

And for crew who will be thinking, "Alright, this is making sense, but what should I do on my next vacation to move the needle forward? To figure out what job I want to do or how to apply, even though I'm going back to ship life?" what would you say?

The first thing is talk to people. Search for someone who can actually give you advice, who can guide you towards what you are expecting.

I didn't have someone to coach me through this. So my first piece of advice is talk to people. If you have someone you can rely on, someone who you think can give you good direction, talk to them. They will tell you the reality of where you live. They will tell you the reality of the market you are searching in. And if you don't have someone like that, search for a service that can provide you with this information.

I was very lucky to choose an area where I could use my skills and my perspective from hospitality. However, having people who can provide good guidance on what you are searching for and thinking about is the first good step to not missing out on any of the steps that come after.

Absolutely. And when someone is in that discovery mode and looking for someone to help, what would be helpful for shifting their mindset from "is this even possible?" to actually moving forward? Because many crew have those fears: "What if I don't make the same money as I did on board? What if I don't enjoy the work?" Those what-ifs can stop crew from moving forward at all.

For me, for example, I live in a city of 22 million people. I'm Brazilian, I didn't mention that. Sao Paulo. It's huge. I'm not unique there, it's a real competition. I'm not talking about how management sees me on board, I'm talking about how I'm putting myself out there on land.

On the topic of salary, that's actually one of the reasons it took me a few more contracts to finally say, "That's it, I'm leaving." Because I made my plan with the question: if I don't get a job in six months, what will I do? I didn't want to return to ships, I didn't want to be there forever. I made this decision when I was nearly 40 and I told myself, I don't want to be 40 on board a ship. So I prepared myself financially, because I knew that in my reality I would never start a land-based job at the same salary I had on the ship.

Choosing the area I chose to work in was also a decision made based on what could offer me a better salary in comparison to other options.

Prepare yourself, because salary cannot be your decision maker, because you will never leave the ship if you are waiting to earn the same income on land.

I think what you said is really important for ship crew to hear. You knew you wouldn't get the same pay on land as you did on a ship, but you used that knowledge to ask yourself, "What is my financial goal for when I do leave?" You stayed on board for that purpose. Then you took it a step further during your vacations, testing the job market, seeing what types of roles you could apply for, understanding your skillset, trialling things through experience. And so when you finally left, you had done everything in the right way for yourself, which led to a much smoother and more enjoyable transition into your land life.

Exactly. And something that is very important, and this is why I said researching is an essential part of this transition: you need to understand where your country is standing economically. You need to understand the reality of where you are living, because working on ships takes us away from that reality. When you come home for two or three months, or even longer, it doesn't always allow you to see what is really happening on land.

There will come a point where you have to say, "This is where I start, because it is a new start." It could be that you have been on ships for a very long time, or that you had a different career path before and are trying to make it work again. But you need to remember that it's a new beginning, and it's very important to know where you are aiming to be.

I agree one hundred percent. And I would like to say that your story and your message is for all ship crew. When you know why you want to leave ships, you can stay strong to your why, and use that to move off ships in an informed way, not an uninformed way. We don't want anyone to leave ships and find themselves in a state of desperation, financially, with accommodation, or with their lifestyle, because they didn't do the research and preparation. And now they're thinking, "What do I do?"

What you have done, I feel, is one of the most grounded ways anyone can move from ship to shore. And for crew on board right now thinking, "Right, maybe I'll start preparing, but I don't know how," what is one thing from your story today that you want them to remember?

Don't ignore the signs. When your mind is saying you're tired, when your body is saying you're tired, don't ignore that. Just think of the best way for yourself to start embracing this idea, because it's not easy. Respect what you are thinking and what you are feeling about your life on board, and start to think about how you can make it easier for yourself. I think that's what I would say.

I agree. It's about being kinder to yourself. You are leaving what I call a very demanding work environment. So start being kinder to yourself by giving yourself that space.

Exactly. This kindness to yourself, giving yourself the time to think about what you need, what you would like, or at least where you would like to be one day, is the most important decision you'll make. And after you have embraced it and thought it through, everything is possible.

That's so true.

Before we wrap up, I would love to ask you this. Using your vacation time to test your CV, to practise job searching, to refine your applications, to go for interviews, what would you say that preparation and practice gave you?

It gave me confidence. Because learning how to speak the land language was the hardest part for me. Some skills people ask for on land, you look at them and think, "I don't know how to do that." But then you just nail it. You excel at it. It's something you do perfectly and you just didn't know what it was called until you heard someone describe what they were looking for.

Don't be afraid of job descriptions, because they are just words that sometimes aren't aligned to the language you're used to. All of that time where I wrote down a CV, first listing my job descriptions and then tailoring it to what was closest to the role I was applying for, and then starting to learn how to say things I was already able to do, things that were already skills I had, it wasn't a quick process. It took me almost a year, from one contract to the next, from one vacation to the next, to learn how to speak about myself.

So that's why I said earlier, don't do things in desperation. Plan, and think about the time you have between contracts as time to learn about yourself as well. I think that was the most valuable lesson I learned, because I was actually a very good candidate for so many things. I could do what I chose to do, and I was fortunate enough to land in that place. But I wasn't even aware of the power I had.

Giving yourself the time to learn about yourself, to learn how to put yourself out there, is something you need to do without pressure. Give yourself the time to do the proper search and to present yourself as the person you really want to be. If you do that, everything will work out well.

Amazing. I think that's the perfect place to end today's episode. I do hope that this conversation has helped you feel clearer and more confident. Please share it with anyone you know who might need it. And do remember, as Caro said, and as I fully agree, your next chapter is possible.

Thank you, Caro, for coming on the show.

Anytime. Thank you for having me.